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Ponkochan Site Admin
Joined: 03 Aug 2007 Posts: 2627 Location: Southeast
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Posted: Sun May 15, 2011 12:26 am Post subject: The Peltier Miller Swirl Myth! |
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Thought that I'd transfer my post (from a few years ago on another board) here, just for the sake of preserving the info.
This comes up so often that I thought that it would be good to post it under the title. This way, anyone searching through "Google" will be able to pull it up also.
Chris (tankgrrl29) posted this on Lou's Marble Connection board and it was so succinct that I saved it. I believe Galen did also.
It explains why the term "Miller Swirl" is a misnomer, when used to describe the swirly Peltier National Line Rainbo (NLR) marbles.
Quote: | ........the "machine" patented by Miller is a set of rollers that made marbles round. it did not affect the design.
the miller "machine" rolled marbles 7/8" and bigger, and in addition to rounding early marbles, it was used recently to round the rootbeer floats and novas.
the "machines" that affected the patterns came from sellers peltier - they were feeders. one for "swirls" and one for "ribbons". they were patented a couple years apart - the swirl feeder was the earlier of the two, but i think the ribbon one was used more.
in making marbles, you need some way to feed glass, and some way to round them (rollers). you also have shears to cut the glass, and this can affect the pattern, but the rollers do not affect the pattern.
hence, you can not tell what machine made a marble "round" by looking at its pattern, and therefore, there's no such thing as a "miller swirl" in this context.
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_________________ Lizzy
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David Chamberlain
Joined: 18 May 2009 Posts: 214
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Posted: Mon May 16, 2011 11:36 am Post subject: |
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This is great and I'm copying it myself. Unfortunately, for too many of us the term 'Miller Swirl' is practically visceral; I'd almost prefer to retain it with the obvious qualifications. Somehow switching to 'Peltier Swirl' at this stage is going to crank my head into a pretzel. David |
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Ponkochan Site Admin
Joined: 03 Aug 2007 Posts: 2627 Location: Southeast
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Posted: Tue May 17, 2011 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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I agree with you, David. I use the collector's name of "Miller Swirl" to describe the swirly NLRs................because it's been in use for so long, that's it's easier than explaining all this every time. lol
Now, the next misnomer that I think I will bring up in another thread is ....................."Pre-freeze or Pre-freese as Koliefclify says in almost every one of his auction lisitngs.) hehe
Heck, this just gave me an idea. I'm gonna add another sub-forum that is titled "Marble Myths & Misconceptions". Then I can move this thread to it. Might be fun. If there isn't much info to add, I'll delete the forum and just archive this info. _________________ Lizzy
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lstmmrbls Site Admin
Joined: 05 Aug 2007 Posts: 696
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Posted: Fri May 20, 2011 11:03 am Post subject: |
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I believe Peltier used a total of 7 Miller machines. One was used for the 89 runs
_________________ Peace,Galen |
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Ponkochan Site Admin
Joined: 03 Aug 2007 Posts: 2627 Location: Southeast
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Posted: Fri May 20, 2011 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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Galen, my memory is getting so bad....................which is one of the reasons that I wanted to set up this section
When you refer to the '89 run, was that the Novas, Root Beer Floats, etc.? _________________ Lizzy
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machinemades
Joined: 30 Aug 2007 Posts: 111 Location: Walnut Creek, Ca
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Posted: Sat May 21, 2011 1:20 am Post subject: |
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Galen, after all did you find out that Miller machines existed and responsible for the early swirls?
Sami |
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lstmmrbls Site Admin
Joined: 05 Aug 2007 Posts: 696
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Posted: Sat May 21, 2011 11:21 am Post subject: |
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I believe there were several types of machines used at Peltier. No proof at all that the swirly types were only made on Miller machines. There is also no proof that they are exclusive to a certain time period. The early boxes seem to contain straight ribbons as often or more often than the swirly types. _________________ Peace,Galen |
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machinemades
Joined: 30 Aug 2007 Posts: 111 Location: Walnut Creek, Ca
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Posted: Sat May 21, 2011 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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There may not be a proof Miller machines produced early swirls, but there is proof the machines existed and were part of early Peltier production as the dates indicates in your attachments. So, all this time you were giving wrong feedback to all of us that Miller machines did not existed and it was Sellers that designed the machines. That is proof that we should be careful of the absolute statements we make to steer people in the wrong direction as this thread and where it is at the moment.
Sami |
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Ponkochan Site Admin
Joined: 03 Aug 2007 Posts: 2627 Location: Southeast
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Posted: Sat May 21, 2011 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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I have to add this quote from Chris (tankgrrl29)) from an old post.
Quote: | *Please don't say Miller
the "machine" patented by Miller is a set of rollers that made marbles round. it did not affect the design.
the miller "machine" rolled marbles 7/8" and bigger, and in addition to rounding early marbles, it was used recently to round the rootbeer floats and novas.
the "machines" that affected the patterns came from Sellers Peltier - they were feeders. one for "swirls" and one for "ribbons". they were patented a couple years apart - the swirl feeder was the earlier of the two, but i think the ribbon one was used more.
in making marbles, you need some way to feed glass, and some way to round them (rollers). you also have shears to cut the glass, and this can affect the pattern, but the rollers do not affect the pattern.
hence, you can not tell what machine made a marble "round" by looking at its pattern, and therefore, there's no such thing as a "miller swirl" in this context. |
_________________ Lizzy
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lstmmrbls Site Admin
Joined: 05 Aug 2007 Posts: 696
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Posted: Sun May 22, 2011 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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I never said Miller machines did not exist any where at any time. I have no idea why you would post what you did. If you do a search of Miller at most of the boards you will see that I have always said that Miller machines rounded marbles. I have had a copy of the patent for at least a dozen years. I simply stated there was no proof they made the swirly Pelts. The feeders (Sellers Peltiers' inventions)determine most of the pattern not the rounding rollers. As a matter of fac,t I posted that statement from Chris many times over years on the boards. Sorry you misunderstood what I was posting. _________________ Peace,Galen |
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